Host Jonathan Porter welcomes Husch Blackwell’s Abe Souza to the podcast to discuss the recent oral arguments in the Janssen Products case before the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. The case involves a previously discussed staggering $1.6 billion district court judgment against the pharmaceutical company based on allegations of improper off-label marketing and reimbursement practices related to HIV medications.
Host Jonathan Porter welcomes Husch Blackwell’s Abe Souza to the podcast to discuss the recent oral arguments in the Janssen Products case before the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. The case involves a previously discussed staggering $1.6 billion district court judgment against the pharmaceutical company based on allegations of improper off-label marketing and reimbursement practices related to HIV medications.
We begin by examining the massive penalties at stake and the Excessive Fines Clause concerns raised by Janssen’s appeal. Our discussion explores how courts analyze whether False Claims Act penalties are constitutionally excessive, including the facts courts consider when evaluating whether a multi-billion-dollar judgment violates the Eighth Amendment’s protections against excessive fines.
Next, we turn to the substantive False Claims Act issues in the case, focusing on whether off-label marketing can serve as a proper predicate for False Claims Act liability. We discuss how the government connects marketing practices to false claims for reimbursement and examine the legal theories that link promotional activities to allegedly fraudulent billing submissions.
Our conversation then shifts to the broader constitutional questions presented in the appeal, including challenges to how the False Claims Act is being applied in pharmaceutical cases. We analyze the arguments raised during oral arguments and what they signal about potential limits on False Claims Act enforcement in the healthcare industry.
We close by discussing what the Third Circuit’s eventual decision could mean for pharmaceutical companies, healthcare providers, and False Claims Act enforcement more broadly, particularly with respect to the scope of liability for marketing practices and the constitutional boundaries of FCA penalties.
Jonathan Porter | Full Biography
Jonathan focuses on white collar criminal defense, federal investigations brought under the False Claims Act, and litigation against the government and whistleblowers. He draws on his experience as a former federal prosecutor to guide clients in sensitive and enterprise-threatening litigation. At the Department of Justice, Jonathan earned a reputation as a top white-collar prosecutor and trial lawyer and was a key member of multiple international healthcare fraud takedowns and high-profile financial crime prosecution teams. He serves as a vice chair of the American Health Law Association’s Fraud and Abuse Practice Group and teaches white collar crime as an adjunct professor of law at Mercer University School of Law.
Abe Souza | Full Biography
Abe regularly represents clients embroiled in internal and government investigations, as well as in government enforcement actions. He also represents clients in complex business disputes and commercial litigation matters, including those involving antitrust and class action claims. Prior to joining Husch Blackwell, Abe served for nearly five years as an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Northern District of Illinois where he worked directly with FBI agents and other investigators and served as a first-chair trial lawyer. He began his legal career as a law clerk for the Honorable Joan Humphrey Lefkow of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.